Curse

actionjack · Nov 27, 2005, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Class name: Engineer (Mechanist/Gageteer)

Energy: Similar to that of Ranger, 25-30 range.
Armor: On par with that of Ranger class, around 60-70 AL range, but without the extra bouns agasint elements.
Weapons: Musket. A range weapon that has a bit shorter range than the current bow, and longer “reloading” time, but slightly more damage. Will be in the fashion of the Musket that appear before 15th century, fused or flintlock. Has a big bang and puff of smoke when fire. HOWEVER, if people dislike the “high technology” in such setting, for the sake or argument, can also change it to a Crossbow. (see below quote from wiki)

Premise: Engineer is much like a Ranger, with role of offensive supporter, adding damage from the back. Not as good doing spike damages, they still can do some interesting things, and Salvager, their primary, will help them a lot in doing it. They could be a Big hitter if they can build it up with the Siege Expert skills, or a decent range attacker with Musket Expert. Explosive Expert will ensure lots AoE and exploding fun, while Gadget will have skills that help them and other classes. Material is a important concept for them in making them unique.
Emots: Do the Robot Dance!

Attributes:

Salvager (primary)
For every points in attribute, will increase the chance of finding Material by 3%. Also improve link skills (see below for explanation on Material)

Siege Expert - "There are no Walls that I can’t Break, and no wall I build will Break! "
Skills that build up high offensive and defensive siege weapons. Need lots material and time to build.

Explosive Expert - " Kabooom"
Skills that require smaller amount of Material and lt is AoE attack to both enemy and ally and self.

Musket (crossbow) Expert – “I can’t shot as fast or as accurate, but I can’t shoot louder!”
Skills that improve the use of Muskets. Some skills are more Chance base than Bow

Gadget Expert - " Do not Compute"
Robo Minions? And traps, and skills that further help other class.

Special Concept:

Musket: Will no have height adventage as in Bows, be the same in whatever high (maybe about a 10-40 damager range). However, have a distance range, in which there is a max range and optimal range. Max range willl still be shorter than that of a long bow, and will only deal 50% of damages. Optimal range is within max range, (maybe about 15feet) and can feel the full damage. Position in higher ground will increase the optimal range. A slower reloading time than hammer.

Explosive: Explosive skills can damage to its own "caster" if they are withing its AoE range. You can hurt your self with it. Should also have a type of Engineer armor that reduce explosive damage. Explosvie will do extra damages to building type (like Siege Weapons), making them great for demolation purpose.

Materials:
First of all, this is not related to the wood and other crafting item in your inventory. It is kept only as a Counter form, show externally, and exist only virtually. There would be only 4 different kinds of Material, Gear, Timber, Iron Bar, and Stone Slab. You would see a counter (possible on top, or on the side) of your interface, that keep track of the Amount of Material you have. The ways you gain those Materials are simple, for it is passive. For every (5?) second, you will automatically “roll” for a chance to get a Material. (Start at 50/50 chance, with 12 in Salvager Attribute, you have 86% chance, and so on). If you got the material, you will roll again to decide what material you got (10% a Gear, 30% a Timber, Iron Bar, or Stone Slab). Of course, this will all be done automatically and with out your concern, you will just see the count go up by 1. Also you can gain material faster with skills in Salvager attribute. Many of the Engineer’s Built Skill have a Material Requirement, and when the skill is used, that amount will be taken from your counter. Your counter go back to zero when you die or change map. (I will put the requirement as G (Gear), T (Timber), I (Iron) and S (Stone))

Siege Weapons
An Engineer can build Siege Weapons of their Siege attribute lines. They are powerful weapons, but would also require lot more Material, and very limiting. One some, the Engineer will “become” the Siege Weapons, but on other, the Engineer can move away form them, and have other operate them (but will be 50% less efficient in use). Will call one Operational, and the other one Stationary. In case of Operational, the engineer inside will also feel 25% of the damage done to the Weapon. Each Siege Weapon have a Hp of its own, and can be destroy, and have a time duration of about (3 mines?) Bombardment can hurt friendly too. Also Siege Weapon will be small, personal size. So a war tank would look somewhat like a push wagon with shields/armor decoration (like a big iron rhino head in front) that can be operated by one man. Animation wise, will see the Engineer spilling bunch of parts on the ground first (depend on what he is buidling) with a blue print-like aura below. The parts will magically come together to form what ever. (like the fixing the Catapult in mission 2) They will crumble apart when time duration is up (since they are held together by magical means). And where would those parts come from? from the G zone, the same place where Ranger hide their arrows and Warrior their weapon when changing them.

Example Skills:

Salvager

Wood Chopper: ( Iron Miner, Stone Cutter)
5e | 2c | 45r : You gain (1-3) Timber Material Instantly.

Scavenger:
5e | 1c | 30r : Need to target a Corpse. Gain (1-3) Materials rolls.

Gear Crafter:
5e | 2c | 45r | 0 G, 1T, 1I, 1S : Trade materials to make one Gear.

Material Searcher:
10e | 1c | 60r : In T seconds, you get a Material roll every 4 seconds.

Siege Expert

Bombardment Measurement:
5e | 1c | 5r :
Allow you to “see” the possible Bombardment Point if you were to build a Bombardment Type Siege Weapon at your current position of your facing.

Catapult:
20e | 6c | 60r | 2 G, 6T, 2I, 5S | Stationary :
You build a Catapult. You can bombard a single point for X AoE damage. Should use Bombardment Measurement first to get a more precise position. 6 second Rate of Fire.

Trebuchet:
20e | 6c | 60r | 3 G, 8T, 2I, 6S | Operational :
You build a Trebuchet. You can Bombard a single point for X (more than Catapult) AoE damage. 8 second Rate of Fire.

Ballista:
20e | 6c | 60r | 1G, 5T, 4I, 2S | Stationary :
You build a Ballista. Fire at the direction you are facing for X damage and small AoE effect. 4 seconds rage of fire.

Arbalest/Mangonel/Luncher/Giant Sling/Hurler/Cannon

War Tank:
20e | 6c | 60r | 2G, 4T, 6I, 2S | Operational :
You build and Operates an Armor Tank. Reduce your movement speed to walking. All Ally “inside” or near it gain +X attack, and reflect Y damage to any melee attacker.

Armor Tank:
20e | 6c | 60r | 1G, 6T, 3I, 3S | Operational :
You build and Operates an Armor Tank. Reduce your movement speed to walking. All Ally “inside” or near it gain +X AL and +Y AL against Piercing.

Cover Shield:
15e | 5c | 60r | 0G, 4T, 2I, 2S | Stationary :
You build a Cover Shield at your area. Any ally inside will gain +X AL against Piercing and Protect this area from any Bombardment till the Shield got Destroy. .

Wire Fence:
10e | 5c | 60r | 0G, 1T, 3I, 0S | Stationary :
You build a Wire Fence. Has a hp of 40. Anyone crossing it with out destroy it first will get Y damage and be Cripple.

Defensive Wall:
10e | 5c | 60r | 0G, 3T, 1I, 1S | Stationary :
You build a Wall. Has a hp of 100. Cannot cross it with out first destroying it.

Explosive Expert

Grenade:
5e | 2c | 5r | 0G, 2T, 0I, 1S:

Toss a Grenade that deal X fire AoE damage.
Rocket:
5e | 1c | 5r | 0G, 1T, 2I, 1S:

Shoot a Rocket that deal X fire AoE damage.
Mine:
10e | 1c | 10r | 0G, 1T, 2I, 2S:

Lay a Mine Trap. Target move over it will trigger X fire AoE damages.
Strap On Explosive:
15e | 1c | 40r | 0G, 1T, 2I, 2S:

Strap an Explosive on your Minion or Enemy. Will explore after 8 seconds, dealing X damage to all nearby. Must be apply at melee range.

Self-Explode:
15e | 1c | 40r | 1G, 0T, 0I, 0S:
Explode self, dealing X damage to self and Y damage to all around.

Fused Barrel:
10e | 1c | 20r | 0G, 2T, 2I, 2S:
Drop a Explosive Barrel that will explode after 5 seconds, dealing X damage to all near by.

Explosive Shot:
5e | 1c | 10r | 0G, 1T, 1I, 1S:
The next Bombardment Fire will do X more damage.

Musket Expert

Dual Shot:
5e | 1c | 20r : Shot twice, but have (50-25%) chance of fail and blow back in your face for Y damage.

Extra Powder Shot:
5e | 1c | 20r : Next Shot do X more damage, but have (50-25%) chance of fail and blow back in your face for Y damage.

Buck Shot:
10e | 2c | 30r : Shoot a Cone shape that can hit multiple enemies, but have (50-25%) chance of fail and blow back in your face for Y damage.

Blinding Shot:
10e | 2c | 30r : Your shot have X% chance of blind the target, but have (50-25%) chance of fail and blow back in your face for Y damage.

Drill Bullet:
10e | 2c | 30r | 0G, 0T, 3I, 0S: Next T seconds, your Bullet/Arrow have X% of armor penetration.

Scope:
10e | 2c | 30r | 0G, 2T, 1I, 0S: Next T seconds, your can shoot at further range.

Improve Powder Horn:
10e | 2c | 30r | 0G, 2T, 0I, 1S: Next T seconds, you reduce the chance of backfire by 10%.

Improve Reloader:
10e | 2c | 30r | 0G, 1T, 1I, 1S: Next T seconds, you reduce the reloading time after each shot.

Gadget Expert

Sorta Brain dead when wrote to this point, and since Uncertain about how A.net is going to treat technology, so unsure of what technology level will appear. But here are some possible lines of skills that can appear in it. (might even take this attribute out entirely if necessary)
Build Robot Buddy/Minons?
Traps
Armor and Weapon Improvement Tools
Shockers and Stunt Gun
Various Devices
Siege Weapon/Robot Fixer

Balance:
Siege Weapons are good to use, but also very hard to use, and require lots Materials, thus almost can be use efficiently by an Engineer primary. Of cause, if you do pull it off at building a Catapult aiming at their spawn point, than you can start hear the cussing. And Imagine a Catapult War between two or more Engineer. Explosive are dangers not only to your enemy, but to your team as well. Use with cautious. Musket can help provide a more solid regular attack if needed, or if you just like the loud boom shots. Warriors/Eng might enjoy some big boom with explosives. An Ranger can actually improve their bow attack too with help from Musket and Gadget skills. A caster might gain less direct benefits, but some of the defensive skills Engineer can offer are sure to be help, especially with the lower energy cost of many of those skills.

Quote:

"Probably the most recognised style of armour in the world, associated with the knights of Late Medieval Europe, but continuing later through the 1500, & 1600s in all European countries. At first, while fire arms were relatively low velocity,the full suits of armor actually stopped bullets fired from a modest distance. Breast plates were in fact commonly shot as a test. The impact point would be encircled with ingraving to point it out. This was called the "proof" . It was not uncommon for a man in armour, mounted on a horse, to ride up closer to the enemy, in a tactical manuever called "The wheel", and discharge his hand-cannon or pistols right into the faces, or coverage gaps in the armour of the adversary at close range. Arrows, if still used, would seldom penetrate good plate, nor would any but the closest bullet. In effect, (and this has long been misunderstood), plate armour actually came to replace chain mail and limited plate armour because of the cannon and guns being used along with better racheting crossbows. Plate would stop all of these at a distance. Hence, guns and cavalry in plate armour were "threat and remedy" together on the battlefield for almost 400 years. For most of that period, it allowed horsemen to fight while being the targets of defending musketeers without being easily killed."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armour#Plate_armour

Concept Class

natemast · Nov 27, 2005, 10:46 PM // 22:46

Dude. you have WAY too much time on your hands!

Fungus Amongus · Dec 02, 2005, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Sounds a bit too much like another game...sorry.

But I rate the following line 5 stars: (1Low...5High)

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjack

Explosive Expert will ensure lots AoE and exploding fun

Tronny07 · Dec 03, 2005, 12:28 AM // 00:28

first off,guild wars,if u havent noticed,dont use *muskets* or guns,because obviously,a gun in a rpg would instantly kill,common sense,and second,ur skills,are litterally all of the classes,and obviously everyone would drop theri classes(except monk or a mesmer)and switch to engineer,aoe,tanking,building minions,and range attacks,atleast be smart and make it master one,not all

Josh · Dec 03, 2005, 12:32 AM // 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tronny07

first off,guild wars,if u havent noticed,dont use *muskets* or guns,because obviously,a gun in a rpg would instantly kill,common sense,and second,ur skills,are litterally all of the classes,and obviously everyone would drop theri classes(except monk or a mesmer)and switch to engineer,aoe,tanking,building minions,and range attacks,atleast be smart and make it master one,not all

And a big Meteor showering down constantly on your head wouldn't "instantly kill you"?

a.k.a: The spell, "Meteor Shower"...*sigh*

actionjack · Dec 03, 2005, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tronny07

first off,guild wars,if u havent noticed,dont use *muskets* or guns,because obviously,a gun in a rpg would instantly kill,common sense,and second,ur skills,are litterally all of the classes,and obviously everyone would drop theri classes(except monk or a mesmer)and switch to engineer,aoe,tanking,building minions,and range attacks,atleast be smart and make it master one,not all

Yes.. I forget to better label it as "Fantasy Musket". Kids, don't play with guns.

Also you can sub Cross bow for it.

benmanhaha · Dec 03, 2005, 02:26 AM // 02:26

Nice class jack, you always seem to come up with good ones. Now onto suggestions

For you people saying that muskets wouldn't be realistic, i ask you why not? It doesnt seem so far fetched that they could have gun powder now does it? And to the fellow saying that a bullet would kill in one hit, well you would think that getting struck by lighting or getting set on fire for x amount of seconds would kill you too. What i believe to be a little unrealistic though, is the rocket launcher. Its plausible, as proved by the myth busters, but not probable. Another thing i have a problem with is the "wood chopper" skill. It seems to me that someone could walk out of a town and just spam that skill to gain alot of wood for pvp.

And to address the issue brought up by Tronny07, about how this class is a bit over powered, I have to agree. I think the gadgetry would be cool, but in the hopes op balancing, i would have to suggest dropping it. The other atributes are too cool to drop. I think in the expansion the necro will have an increased arsenal of minions, so i think it would be ok to leave this out.

Overall i give it a 9.5 out of 10.

darkdragon99 · Dec 03, 2005, 02:35 AM // 02:35

actionjack is this all you do all day or what?

either it comes naturally or you have to work at it wich would need alot of free time.

it's good i have to say i like the Alchemist better though.

Rogmar · Dec 03, 2005, 06:13 PM // 18:13

I personally like this idea better than alchemist, but if you combined them, i think you could have a very nice class, it will be pretty original since its not ONLY alchemist or ONLY engineer

Maxiemonster · Dec 03, 2005, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Hell no!

I hate people trying to "bring the future" into a game that's all about knights and magician etc. There was alot of time between the time of bows and the time of guns, and they were never used as equals.

actionjack · Dec 03, 2005, 08:32 PM // 20:32

woot.. breakt 100 viewing.. good enough and can let it rest now...

To adress some issues:
About guns and Muskets. I would by pass the arguement, and already said can be sub with a Cross bow. So don't be too blinded by just that one thing. How "technological" advance GW world is would be a decision made not by me, but the devs. (but I still don't think guns are "from the future". If people can shoot out fireball from their hand with magic, what keep them from putting iron pallet in a pipe?)

About materials. They are only good for the map, and would reset it's number back to zero when you move to next map. Thus you cann't "stack" up your material in another map before and instanly build a Catapalt in PvP.

Gadetry. I am not certain about it, there fore I didn't put anything in there. Ideas about it are welcome.

About it being a master of all. That statment is kinda right, however, the way they can perform their skill are differnt (with the need of materials), thus they would be play differntly. Thus they cann't do anything at once, and have to concentrat more in one field. And remember, if you look at the current classes, they allow you to do multi things as well, just differntly. (a Ranger have skills that can heal, traps, tanks/dodge, pet, range, and interrupt)

Further comments are welcome (jut not the "gun" argument again)

Retribution X · Dec 03, 2005, 10:35 PM // 22:35

i think it would be a Little cooler if he gets a crossbow, 75 al, grenades... FUN!

Melkor of ZoSo · Dec 03, 2005, 10:39 PM // 22:39

This isn't WoW, man.

Fungus Amongus · Dec 04, 2005, 02:29 AM // 02:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogmar

I personally like this idea better than alchemist, but if you combined them, i think you could have a very nice class, it will be pretty original since its not ONLY alchemist or ONLY engineer

So perhaps you would like to play a Al/En?

almightytom · Dec 04, 2005, 05:13 AM // 05:13

yeah so lets just take a medival based game and throw in a musket. that totally makes sense. king arthur had a shotgun, didnt you know? imo, a terrible idea.

darkdragon99 · Dec 04, 2005, 05:29 AM // 05:29

it's amazing how the focus goes to the one thing that wasn't even a full idea you know actionjack did say it can be replaced for a crossbow or did you freaking idiots stop reading as soon as you seen musket

and while your bitching about realism you might want to take out. lets see the warriors ablitiy to do shouts most of the ranger skills all of the monk skills and all the rest of the casters for that matter. let alone the monsters well you might as well just cut out the hole dam game cause it's no where close to realistic.

heres a realistic idea you die once and you have to start all over again with a hole new char sure that sounds fun to me.

batou · Dec 04, 2005, 05:44 AM // 05:44

a tiny little ball from an ancient musket wouldnt kill any1 in 1 hit anyway, but still, there is probably little chance that this kind of character would be introduced
did any1 consider giving a crossbow to a ranger?

almightytom · Dec 04, 2005, 05:58 AM // 05:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkdragon99

it's amazing how the focus goes to the one thing that wasn't even a full idea you know actionjack did say it can be replaced for a crossbow or did you freaking idiots stop reading as soon as you seen musket

and while your bitching about realism you might want to take out. lets see the warriors ablitiy to do shouts most of the ranger skills all of the monk skills and all the rest of the casters for that matter. let alone the monsters well you might as well just cut out the hole dam game cause it's no where close to realistic.

heres a realistic idea you die once and you have to start all over again with a hole new char sure that sounds fun to me.

wow. you are a very angry person, arent you. fine. ill talk about more than the musket.
where should i start...
Seige weapons: lets see. he is just gonna wave his arms and a trebuchet is gonna drop out of the sky for him to use and decimate his enemies? that makes sense.
war tank: yeah ok. lets just summon a tank to the medival ages.
wire wall: because there is so much time to build a wall during a fight in guildwars
grenade: see war tank
rocket: see grenade
mine: see rocket
robot: need i say anything?

pretty sure i liked it when someone said "this isnt WoW"

darkdragon99 · Dec 04, 2005, 06:06 AM // 06:06

while your talkin about making sense

how can necros raise the dead
how can a ele summon lightning or a fireball or control water or earth
how can a monk heal someone instantly
how can a ranger control a animal or spirits

most of this game makes little to no sense if you really get to thinking about it

further more this game is a freaking fantasy based game you know where dragons walk the earth and unthinkable things can happen it's not supposed to make sense so your it doesn't make sense or it's not realistic crap just pisses me off

almightytom · Dec 04, 2005, 06:25 AM // 06:25

well, if we put aside the fact that necromancers in ANY game can raise the dead, and elementalists in ANY game can congure elements, and monks in ANY game can heal like mad, and rangers in ANY game have an affinity with nature, your argument makes sense. wait a minute, that means that your argument didnt make sense.
fantasy can only go so far. conjuring a catapault out of thin air is a little too much fantasy for a game like guildwars.
and when i used the term realistic, it was intended to point toward the guildwars version of realism.